As you know, I'm willing to enter into informed and constructive discussions with yourself and others in this.

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#AI-Resources // #NE-UK

Im willing, but Ive already had my say, so it may be a conflict of interest.

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<sub>I'M not locked up in here with YOU, YOU'RE locked up in here with ME-Rorschach

Well behaved women rarely make history.

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Firstly, thanks for actually taking the time to get back to us. We're REALLY happy with the way that progress has been made but to stop it there would be like leaving the job half finished.

Yes, the Vexel = Raster art that takes from the style of vector has the potential to be ambiguous, but not if it's explained correctly. That's what Shar and I are aiming to get at. In our minds, as the definition currently stands, it's leading to more confusion than necessary. We think a shorter, concise definition and then perhaps an extended, but not lengthy, explanation of that would be a better front to take. After all, there is plenty saying what a vexel is not, but very little explaining what it actually is.

I'll be lurking around, reading the comments here and trying to input a bit of constructive critisism and help where I see fit. Just wanted to take the time to actually say thanks for letting us be heard because for a long time it didn't feel as if we were being heard at all.



Furthermore, if anyone has any questions regarding specific matters, do not hesitate to note either myself or `ChewedKandi, whom I'm sure won't mind me speaking for her on this matter. We're here to help, and here to actively improve the galleries we love so much

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Sewwylulz <3

*Vexel Art = Raster art that takes after the style of vector*

CT: A Twilight RPG
SCorg

Agreed - *Sewwy and I share the same stance and are happy to be approached with any questions or concerns.

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#AI-Resources // #NE-UK

And it's reasons like this I wish comments had an edit function ...

I fully intended to link vexels.org -- [link] -- which Seth Wooley created a month or so ago to aid Shar and I's purpose here. Hopefully this can bring a little more insight to the discussion.

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Sewwylulz <3

*Vexel Art = Raster art that takes after the style of vector*

CT: A Twilight RPG
SCorg

I never intended for you both to feel unheard or ignored. As I already said in a note a while back, I just wanted to wait for ^shebid to return. She should be a part of this discussion just like everyone else, is all!

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jules1983@volunteers.deviantart.com

_{"I'm going to think of it as vector = pure shapes, vexel = pure awesome and shiny bits added in." - `Flutterings}

ksolike, if you could change the definition, right now, what would you change it to?

Just curious.

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I've never really liked the phrase "vector art" because the word vector doesn't really describe a "style", it describes a tool. Saying vector or vexel art is to me, like saying "paintbrush art" or "technical pen art". I feel like the confusion starts with how the words are used.

Now "impressionism" is a style, short brush strokes. When someone says that word, an immediate image comes to mind. When I think "vector", it's simply too broad a category to ever be considered a style, in my eyes.

With using the term style, there should be something aesthetic that ties all the pieces together, which I feel there isn't except that they are all digital. There should be continuity when there is a "style". And this isn't my definition of style in the art world, which is how the word style is used, and has been used.

I'm not saying these things to ruffle any feathers. It's something I've been thinking about way back since the days of Nova.

Also, one of Seth's original arguments that once a vector work is saved for the web, it automatically becomes a vexel, because it loses it's vector qualities. In that sense, it has absolutely nothing to do with the aesthetic qualities of style.

I've used vector to create works for over 10 years at this point, so I've had a lot of time to think about how I define things. They're really just thoughts I'm putting out there. I don't really have a solution to anything, just thoughts.

Good to see the old skool getting in on this.

I completely agree with using the term "vector art" to describe a style - at present I've got Sarah on Skype typing her ass off for a response to Heather.

Just wanting to pick up on the paragraph:

"Also, one of Seth's original arguments that once a vector work is saved for the web, it automatically becomes a vexel, because it loses it's vector qualities. In that sense, it has absolutely nothing to do with the aesthetic qualities of style."

Yes - this was meerly to illustrate what raster/pixel based images are.

However, this is disputed based on the fact that the fair majority of valid vector work which is displayed on the internet is saved in png/gif/jpg because it is easier and a smaller file size than flash.

What determines a vexel and a vector is not the file type which is used to display it - but the source file.

As you know a skilled vexel and vector artist could produce identical images and it would only be the source file... (ie .psd/.psp/.ai file) which would tell you whether it is vector or vexel on appearance alone.

Just putting this out there incase Seth's arguement on that matter is confusing to some viewers

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#AI-Resources // #NE-UK

Hokay.

So we've already established that vexel is a raster based art taking after the style of vector.

So in order to answer this, we'd have to first define what the common style of vector is. (For the purpose of this, We are to exclude Gradient meshes: Reasons for which will be explained later.)

Rather than define a vector as something involving clearly defined layers (as this isn't always the case: See `ChewedKandi's ridiculously good attempts at "uber realism" to see what I mean...), instead I'll be focussing on an actual methodological approach to define the process of vectoring.

To put it simply, vectoring involves the creation of a multitude of objects on a multitude of layers in order to achieve the final result. Seeing as vector programs such as illustrator provide you with an absolutely insane degree of control and tools to create such a feat, singling out one specific tool would just be wrong of me. However, the final result produces something that (I feel, anyway) we're all relatively familiar with.

To reiterate my point here, I'm going to shove in of one of `ChewedKandi's works: [link]

Shar's utilised (quite seriously) a plethora of different tools including gradients (Linear and radial fills), symbols, vector blends, brushes (not to be confused with what people consider brushes in Photoshop), and solid colour objects of varied opacities in order to produce the end result of something that can familiarly be recognised as what we know to be vector style.

When it comes to considering what is vexel, well, the fundamentals is that it takes on a vector like appearance. And, by vector like, we're referring to the stylised works like the aforementioned in which artists aim to reproduce (so to speak) an image of an object, person, scene, or what have you. (Please note that it's not strictly limited to this - see *CQcat's works to see what I mean.) Granted, raster programs such as PSP or Photoshop more often than not do not include most of the tools seen in vector programs such as Illustrator. By creating a "Raster based art taking after the style of vector" we simply imply that by using SELECT tools from such raster programs, as well as the incorporation of layers, opacities and what have you, a vector-like product can be achieved.

Perhaps this is a good time to define the tools that, in our minds anyway, are considered fundamental to vexelling.

In my opinion, the perfect vexel can be created with 3 tools: A selection tool of some description (Be it the lasso tool or pen tool), a flood tool (be in the paint bucket, the gradient tool, or "Fill path" option from the pen tool functionality), and layering. Of course (naturally) you have to add in basic features such as the eyedropper or colour selection tools because otherwise we're getting nowhere, but I would hope that that would be self explanatory.

Why these three tools? Because you can (and I have) created vexels from these tools alone [link] and when I think about what the fundamentals of vexel art are, those three elements come to mind. So how do we use these tools in a raster program to produce vector-like results? Simply, we create selections and we fill said selections on different layers, slowly building up the image much like you'd do in Illustrator or other vector programs, but utilising less tools in the process.

So what about tools that should be strictly excluded from vexel?
-Burn/Dodge
-Smudge
-Blur
-Filters
-The pen tool if it's to produce VECTOR (which, yes, can be done in photoshop very successfully)
-Brushes (say, scanned images: If a brush is a solid shape with crisp edges, it can be seen as a shape that can be easily drawn with the previously mentioned tools. However, use of brushes to aid processes such as stroke path are acceptable.)
-Airbrush
-Eraser tool
(Simply, if your process is coming out more like a digital painting, you're doing it wrong.)

Why do we exclude these elements from vexel? Simply because it takes away from the layered object appearance. If you wished to, say, create a smooth transition between layers, there are ways and means to do so using only objects and layers to achieve the result. If you're blending, dodge/burning, erasing, airbrushing ... Quite simply, you're taking away from the solidity of the objects and almost defeating the purpose of creating a vexel to begin with.

As an aside, I'd also like to mention why gradient mesh isn't considered part of the veCTOR 'style' -- Opposed to most objects created in vector programs, Gradient mesh works in a way that fails to take on the object element, producing what is closer to an airbrushed effect. When you consider what the alternative would be in a raster based program, we're stepping into something similar to airbrushing, 3d work, or even digital painting, which is not (even in the slightest) the effect we're trying to achieve.

To conclude this long-ass essay, when it comes down to it, both the vector and vexel process involve a layering of objects to produce a final result.

--
Sewwylulz <3

*Vexel Art = Raster art that takes after the style of vector*

CT: A Twilight RPG
SCorg